Madeline (00:01): Hello and welcome to SHE SOARS. Her Voice. Her Rights.

Amal (00:05): We are CARE Canada’s Youth Champions, a group of young people across Canada who are passionate advocates for Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights (SRHR).

Lauren (00:13): We’re excited to discuss and raise awareness about young women’s rights and choices in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

Amal (00:20): Together, we will explore how these global issues connect to our lives as Canadian youth and discover ways in which we can all take action.

Lauren (00:27): We will also talk about the SHE SOARS* project, which improves access to health and education, which are areas we want to see change in.

Everyone (00:34): Join us!

Lauren (00:40): Welcome back to episode eight of the SHE SOARS podcast. I’m Lauren. I am joined by Madeline and Amal today and we are going to be having an informal group discussion. So last episode, we were joined by Jessica Wood from SIECCAN (the Sex Information & Education Council of Canada) to talk more about sexual education and curriculum development across Canada as well as different advocacy points and research. The podcast episodes before that one, we were joined by Sithembile from Zambia, giving us more context into what sex ed is looking like in the SHE SOARS partner countries. So today we will be drawing comparisons and talking about what we’ve learned over the last few episodes and talking about why is this important for Canadian youth.

Madeline (01:19): Yeah. So I think maybe before we get too deep into really comparing, it might be good to refresh people’s memories about what the sex ed curriculum looks like in the SHE SOARS project. One main aspect of that is these girls’ and boys’ groups in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia. They’re not held within school, but they’re meant to deliver sexual education to girls and boys in the partner countries. So I think during our discussion today, we’re going to be referring a lot to those curricula and those groups just to give people a refresher.

Lauren (01:57): Good to do that for sure.

Amal (01:59): Yeah. I can start us off. From both of the discussions that we’ve had with Sithembile and Jessica, what are some similarities you noticed when learning about the Canadian context and Kenya, Uganda and Zambia in terms of the sex education curriculum?

Madeline (02:14): I thought it was interesting how the main focus of both tends to be on problem-solving. We heard this both from Jessica and from Sithembile, that it’s really focused on things we would consider more immediate problems like preventing unwanted pregnancy, preventing sexually transmitted infections, and those sorts of things. Rather than, like Jessica was talking about, the concept of enhancing sexual health. So that’s something I found interesting.

Lauren (02:45): Yeah, that definitely rings true with my sexual education experience as well. It was very like fear-based. It was like just telling us everything that would go wrong and how to prevent issues rather than talking about everything that sexual health can encompass. So that’s a great point. I think some other similar topics that were mentioned in the SHE SOARS curriculum and the curriculum guidelines mentioned by Jessica is a lot of consent and gender awareness is present in both, which I think is maybe on the rise more than it was back when we were in the sexual education curriculum, representing a shift in the last five to 10 years. And then also in terms of gender-based violence, I think this was something that was really highlighted in the SHE SOARS curricula and also in the guidelines mentioned by Jessica, but I’m not sure to what extent that’s actually being executed in the school systems in Canada right now.

Amal (03:39): Yeah, it was interesting like concepts around gender awareness and gender identity and sexual orientation were both things that were brought up in our conversations with Sithembile and Jessica.

Lauren (03:51): Yeah, I think some other things that I noticed were quite prominent similarities in the SHE SOARS curricula was talking a lot about how it’s important to get parents and communities on board with sexual health curriculum because right away people were like wait, why are we teaching all these things to our young people? They’re just going to go and have sex and have problems. But when it was more shared about what the actual curriculum was doing, parents were more on board, which is something that Jessica was advocating for. I’m not sure, at least in my experience, how much that’s actively being practiced within the school system as well. But it was some something interesting I noticed that was being advocated for here that’s actually happening in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

Madeline (04:32): Yeah, I know in my experience there was very little engagement with parents or community members around sex ed at least as far as I was aware. But it makes sense why that would be very important, right? Because it can be such a sensitive issue for a lot of people. So it makes sense that you want to make sure that everyone is aware of what’s being taught and understanding of why those topics are important for youth to be learning about.

Lauren (05:01): Yeah, and I think that’s a really important part of the de-stigmatization of it as well. For me, I know I would’ve been embarrassed to share with my parents what I was learning about and they didn’t really want to ask me questions either. And I feel like if there was more community conversation and kind of familial involvement it would be a lot more comfortable.

Madeline (05:20): I agree.

Amal (05:21): Yeah, I agree. I feel like having families involved will make it a more normalized conversation versus what it is now. So I think that’s one key area that we think should be included. On that note, what other things do we think aren’t currently included that are important to include?

Lauren (05:41): Yeah, I think the thing that sparked something for me was intersectionality, but personally I found it interesting how she’s talking about body image and everything. I grew up with mild cerebral palsy and I know that that was never something that was talked about in any sort of self-esteem manner or like how that would relate to my experience with sex or anything like that. And it wasn’t until university that I met people with similar experiences. So that was like, oh, this would’ve been really cool to actually have even just a section of the class on so I could see myself in the curriculum a little bit too. And I just think that would be so important for so many different groups of people to see that representation.

Madeline (06:18): Yeah, that was something that really struck me listening to Jessica speak was how little intersectionality there was in any of the sex ed that I ever received. The only conversations I really remember having around body image in sex ed health class at school were around like eating disorders and that sort of conversation, which is obviously important, but there was no real discussion of how like different identities, different backgrounds, different levels of ability might impact how you view your body. And so I think that’s something that’s really important that is missing in a lot of situations.

Lauren (07:00): We didn’t even get taught about eating disorders. I think our bodies were only talked about in terms of like hygiene and why it’s important to wear deodorant. And I was told like you needed to shower more when you’re on your period because you’re like dirty or whatever. I don’t know. So yeah, we weren’t talked to at all really about how to build self-esteem.

Amal (07:19): Similar to Madeline, your experience, I think in my school we did just talk about eating disorders and then how that impacts your body image, but there were really no conversations about intersectionality and how that might impact your Sexual and Reproductive Health Rights and how you view your body. And I think hearing from Jessica, one of their suggestions is including culturally sensitive content regarding SRHR and I’m like, wow, I wish this was incorporated when I was in school, but I’m glad there’s guidelines addressing this kind of improvement.

Madeline (07:53): Yeah, agreed. And what she was saying about culturally sensitive sex ed also made me think about making sure that content is culturally appropriate and isn’t falling into like neo-colonial traps. Both in the Canadian context when we’re talking about Indigenous issues within sex ed curricula, and then also when we’re looking at the role of partners in the SHE SOARS project delivering sex ed programs in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia, and just making sure that things are being conducted in a culturally appropriate, respectful manner.

Lauren (08:32): Yeah, trying to dismantle the power hierarchies that exist in both contexts and make sure that the content is definitely culturally sensitive, and not even just sensitive, but also inclusive and bringing lots of different perspectives to the space and honoring the different cultures that exist in the space.

Amal (08:50): Yeah, I definitely would agree. And I think it just highlights the importance of including communities in the content that is being created, which I think the SHE SOARS project really does well. They really stress that the partner countries guide the type of curriculum that’s being made. And I think from our past conversations with Sithembile and Ruth, that’s really evident that they’re actively involved in the type of curriculum that comes out. And I think it’s just a great way to maintain that balance when you’re talking about curriculum and how it relates to identity and race and the impacts of colonialism.

Lauren (09:25): Yeah, absolutely. Another thing that we noticed that was different between the two curriculums is the involvement of boys. As we discussed in the SHE SOARS curricula, there’s this whole boys’ group and curriculum that talks about gender roles and gender-based violence and the role of boys in making sure Sexual and Reproductive Health Rights are upheld. Whereas in Canada, at least in my experience, it was like the curriculum was for everyone unless they separated us out to do specific things on like our reproductive organs. But the social messaging is the same for everyone and it wasn’t necessarily tailored to different gender identities.

Madeline (10:02): Yeah. And I think that is a really interesting aspect of the SHE SOARS curriculum because yeah, you’re right Lauren, as far as I’m aware, at least in most provinces in Canada, there isn’t separate curricula for girls versus boys. I think it’s a little counterintuitive to some people maybe because your initial reaction is, oh, but we want everyone to be getting the same information and it’s important for girls to be learning about the experience of boys and vice versa, which I agree with. But at the same time, I also think it’s important to acknowledge that girls and boys do typically, in most scenarios, have different experiences in childhood, like they’re exposed to different messaging about gender roles and about what behaviors they should be expected to follow and that sort of thing. And so I think sometimes it is necessary to take separate approaches to breaking down those messages that youth have received. And I think that’s a really interesting aspect of the SHE SOARS curriculum, like the different approaches to talking about gender-based violence and gender roles. And consent especially I think is one that can benefit from that sort of approach.

Lauren (11:23): Yeah, absolutely. And I don’t think we’re advocating for like complete isolation of girls versus boys, but more so like the harmonized approach that kind of reflects more on each other’s experiences and then sometimes it’s together and taking more of a topic-based approach that way.

Madeline (11:38): Exactly. Yeah.

Lauren (11:39): Yeah. Another difference between the project and the Canadian context is in the Canadian context, sexual education is very school-based with kind of your teacher taking the lead. It was often in my experience, your gym or physical education teacher teaching you sexual education, whereas with the SHE SOARS project, it is very community-based, so it’s focusing on out-of-school girls. I think it would be cool to maybe have more of those resources in Canada that youth can get access to outside of school, which I really appreciate the work that SIECCAN is doing because I think that’s filling part of that gap.

Amal (12:16): Yeah, definitely. One of the points that drew me in when Jessica was explaining about the recommendations was having external people. And I think that is really interesting that, even in I believe some of the data collection that she was mentioning, young people would’ve preferred having an externally trained professional teach them this kind of information. So I think that would be a really interesting shift to see in the sex ed curriculum in Canada. Especially seeing how this is something that is being done in SHE SOARS partner countries.

Lauren (12:46): Yeah, absolutely. So is there anything else that has come to mind for anyone regarding similarities, differences, or thoughts we have?

Amal (12:54): I think one of the interesting points that in both conversations was mentioned was the role of involving youth in advocacy and how having youth voices in these spaces really makes a difference when it comes to engaging with stakeholders and how that should be one of the key things when we’re talking about SRHR advocacy.

Lauren (13:16): Yeah, absolutely. I love seeing that youth are being actually surveyed across Canada. I think that’s going to make a big difference in the curricula here if it’s actually taken into consideration, which I hope it is. And I’m happy that it’s very youth-led as well in the partner countries.

Madeline (13:31): Yeah, I remember when I was in school, it really did not feel like I had any say in any of the sex ed that I received at the time. Right? In Ontario, the curriculum was from like the nineties. So it had been developed before I was even born and it didn’t really feel like there was any political will or interest to listen to the opinions of youth in terms of what we wanted to be learning or what was important to us. So it’s very promising to me to see that there is more of a shift towards giving youth more of a voice in determining how those curricula are being created.

Lauren (14:13): Yeah, I think one of the most impactful sexual education classes I ever had, I was in the fifth grade and this was our first ever class on puberty or anything like that. And I only had seven girls in my class, so we had a kind of fireside chat vibe going on and my teacher was like, I’m going to make a bowl and I’m going to cut up a bunch of paper for you and just write your questions and I’m going to answer all of your questions to the best of my abilities. And that was really cool because it was totally anonymous and you could just ask whatever. So I feel like the surveys and the youth consultations happening, that’s sort of like that little fireside chat on a way larger and systemic scale, which is really exciting to see.

Amal (14:50): Yeah, that’s pretty interesting that your teacher did that and I mean it seems to be still impactful that you remember it to this day. So I think having things like that in classrooms would be really helpful for students.

Lauren (15:01): Yeah. So the last question we had on the docket for today’s discussion is talking a bit more about how youth can take initiative to learn more about sex ed in Canada and get involved in advocacy. Does anyone want to start us off on that point?

Amal (15:14): I was just trying to remember a few of the things that I’ve seen in my experience and some of the things Jessica mentioned, but being involved in the youth advisory boards and these type of topics that you’re interested in. For example, engaging in research or surveys that organizations like SIECCAN are doing. And I think in my experience what has really worked in youth advocacy is using your voice on social media or even engaging with parliamentarians on topics that you’re passionate about really makes a difference. For a different topic that I was volunteering on, we were meeting with parliamentarians to advocate for increased international aid and then through meeting with parliamentarians that really made a difference in changing policy. So I think just finding things that you’re interested in and finding organizations that are doing advocacy work and that want to involve youth is a really great initiative that you can take on your own. And even just using social media is also another advocacy tool that’s really accessible for youth.

Lauren (16:18): Yeah, and there’s so much online nowadays too, especially resources like SIECCAN and everything. There’s so much learning available. Of course, listening to our podcast, you’ll also gain more insight.

Madeline (16:28): You can follow CARE Canada on Instagram.

Lauren (16:30): Little subtle pitch.

Madeline (16:32): Yeah, I think also just even on a smaller scale, looking to see what clubs are available like at school can be a really good place to start if you feel overwhelmed and don’t know how to start breaking into the advocacy space. Looking into the types of clubs that are going to be available will vary based on your school and where you live, but even things like LGBTQI+ student groups, like gay straight alliance type groups, are often doing a lot of interesting work on sex ed or just other clubs that are available that talk about gender equality or sex ed can be a good place to start and can help you learn more about the different avenues of advocacy that are open to you if you’re not sure how to really get going.

Lauren (17:27): Yeah, I think those are some great ideas. Thanks for sharing and I’m sure there’s many more ideas, so feel free to reach out in the comments of this podcast and we’ll know going forward as well that we can share those.

Madeline (17:38): Thanks so much everyone for listening and thanks Lauren and Amal. I feel like we had a really good discussion just about those connections between the Canadian curriculum and the SHE SOARS curriculum and the sex ed activities that are going on in both contexts. You can join us next time to hear us talk about the relationship between climate and SRHR, where we’ll be having a really interesting discussion. So tune back in for that. Thanks for listening. Bye everyone.

Amal (18:04): Bye for now. Thanks for listening to SHE SOARS. If you liked this episode, please share it on social media, connect with us in the comments or give us a like.

Lauren (18:17): Make sure to catch our next episode by subscribing to our channel and following us wherever you get your podcasts.

Madeline (18:23): Follow @carecanada on Instagram for updates on our show and the project.

Lauren (18:28): SHE SOARS stands for Sexual and reproductive Health and Economic empowerment supporting Out-of-school Adolescent girls’ Rights and Skills in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

Madeline (18:38): The project is funded by Global Affairs Canada. Check out our global partner organizations:

Amal (18:44): Youth Coalition for Sexual and Reproductive Rights, the Center for Reproductive Rights and Restless Development for even more project updates.

Lauren (18:53): Thanks again for listening. Until next time!