[00:00:01] Madeline: Hello and welcome to SHE SOARS. Her Voice. Her Rights.

[00:00:05] Amal: We are CARE Canada’s Youth Champions, a group of young people across Canada who are passionate advocates for sexual and reproductive health and rights (SRHR).

[00:00:13] Lauren: We’re excited to discuss and raise awareness about young women’s rights and choices in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:00:20] Amal: Together, we will explore how these global issues connect to our lives as Canadian youth and discover ways in which we can all take action.

[00:00:27] Lauren: We will also talk about the SHE SOARS* project, which improves access to health and education, which are areas we want to see change in.

[00:00:34] Everyone: Join us!

[00:00:40] Amal: Welcome back everyone to the second part of our discussion with Amanda and Jeremiah, two members of the SHE SOARS Youth Advisory Board, also known as YAB. 

[00:00:49] Amanda: Hi, thank you so much for having me again.

[00:00:52] Jeremiah: Hello. It’s good to be back again. 

[00:00:55] Amal: Thank you all. I’m also joined with Nour, my co-host.

[00:00:59] Nour: Hi everyone. It’s nice to be back. I’m really looking forward to this episode.

[00:01:03] Amal: Awesome. So in the first episode of this season, we learned about the Youth Advisory Board and the work they do and discussed the importance of inclusive and youth-friendly language. So in this episode, we’re shifting more towards a discussion on the actions and advocacy that we can do as youth.

[00:01:20] Amal: And that’s also being done within the partner countries and the SHE SOARS project. So thank you, Amanda and Jeremiah, for joining us. I think our listeners would love to hear a bit more about your background. To start, could you explain what work the Youth Advisory Board has done to date on youth-friendly language?

[00:01:38] Jeremiah: Yeah, sure. Thank you so much. For those listening for the first time, my name is Lubumbe Jeremiah Mulanda. I’m a Youth Advisory Board member based in Zambia, and it’s a pleasure to be here.

[00:01:50] Jeremiah: So we had quite a fruitful discussion. And to kick it off, SHE SOARS is a project that focuses on young people and the sexual and reproductive health of young people. So it is only right that young people are the ones who lead innovation. Young people are the ones who lead different activities. And the Youth Advisory Board is at the epicenter of all of that. We represent the voices and the views of young people.

[00:02:16] Jeremiah: So first and foremost, we make ourselves available. We are always in meetings. We are always on the ground. As I’m speaking to you right now, I am currently in the eastern part of Zambia where I am going to be supporting training to ensure that there’s youth-friendly and inclusive language.

[00:02:33] Jeremiah: The Youth Advisory Board is constantly reviewing documents like the gender strategy, the project implementation plans, you name it, to ensure that we are being deliberate about youth-friendly and inclusive language.

[00:02:48] Jeremiah: The Youth Advisory Board acts as an accountability mechanism in this regard because we also understand that sometimes adults might forget, or they might take for granted, youth-friendly and inclusive language is a must. We’re not asking for this. This is a must. This should happen.

[00:03:05] Jeremiah: Why? Because then young people are able to understand. So those are two key things that we do. I’ll let Amanda highlight the others. Thank you.

[00:03:13] Amanda: Thank you very much, Jeremiah. So my name is Amanda Joan Julian Mary Banura. I am a member of the Youth Advisory Board from Uganda. To go to the start in case someone might not have listened in before, let’s define youth-friendly language. We have had lots of time to explain it to our adult partners, our allies, what it means to actually have youth-friendly language in our programs and the work that we do. So when we talk about youth-friendly language, we’re meaning language that is respectful, sensitive, and inclusive of young people regardless of their body nature, their orientation, or anything. It involves avoiding stereotypes and condescending language. It recognizes the value of youth, promotes their dignity and encourages their active participation in various aspects of society. So this type of language aims at creating a more respectful and equitable dialogue with young individuals. That’s why we always say there’s nothing for young people without us. We are all equal partners. If you’re going to have a program for young people, then let them be part of the design at the start of the program and the implementation.

[00:04:25] Amanda: Bringing us back to what Jeremiah said, he is on the ground already, meaning he is part of all the processes as a young person. And that is what we want to see in all programming and partners within the SHE SOARS project. We know that it is a broad project running in three countries, Uganda, Kenya and Zambia. And it is focusing on girls who are out of school because many times those girls out of school and neglected and left to the community to fend for them. And their education levels are not looked at. Their adolescent needs are not taken care of, their health needs and livelihood needs. So that is why in this particular project, SHE SOARS, we are reviewing documents, and we are reviewing plans. What are people doing and does it really meet the needs of young people? If I could maybe give some examples. 

[00:05:15] Amanda: Instead of saying, oh, those kids, those teenagers, just use ‘young people’ like we’re using. It is very comprehensive. It is inclusive. It does not segregate. So that is what we mean by youth-friendly language and the work that we’re doing as the YAB. 

[00:05:29] Nour: Thank you both so much. I think it’s amazing that both of you are focused on the ground and very hands on by reviewing work plans and keeping up with the needs of young people. What are your thoughts on interacting with young people for the first time? How do you approach using respectful language and what are your considerations?

[00:05:48] Jeremiah: That’s a very important question. And I think from my experience being a young person and engaging other young people, first and foremost, you need to ask them what language they are comfortable communicating in. That’s very important because then you are trying to form a connection.

[00:06:07] Jeremiah: You’re trying to establish an understanding. So any kind of activity that you’re doing, a survey, a workshop, please ensure that you ask young people what language they are comfortable communicating in. That will already show them that you really care about them understanding what you are delivering, and that is very important.

[00:06:29] Jeremiah: If you can’t, for example, speak the local language or understand it, look for a translator who the young people will be able to understand, and who can translate to you as well. Then stay away from very big terminologies. Make it simple to understand, straight to the point, because our concentration span sometimes isn’t long because we’re thinking about so many things at the same time. So once you lose a young person in a workshop, in a meeting, or in an interview, for them to circle back to you it might take a lot of time.

[00:07:03] Jeremiah: Keep your information short and sweet. In episode one, we spoke about how the Youth Advisory Board was affected by the use of initials in the beginning of the project. I didn’t know, for example, what GESI (Gender Equality and Social Inclusion) stood for.

[00:07:18] Jeremiah: So it was very hard to sit in meetings and hear people say, there’s GESI. There’s what? So always just staying away from those initials is good. Say the words in full: Gender Equality and Social Inclusion, that’s GESI. 

[00:07:32] Jeremiah: When I’m facilitating workshops, on the ground, attending meetings, or even just in one-on-one conversations, it’s always helpful to stay away from these terms because you drive their attention away from the material that you want to deliver. I have found these tips very useful as I have interacted with different young people on the SHE SOARS project.

[00:07:52] Amanda: To add on my side when interacting with people for the first time, you first study the behaviour or the character because working with adolescents, they are diverse. They have diverse needs and attention, just like Jeremiah mentioned. So first, study the environment they are in, what they are most attracted to, who they are looking at, and what their conversations are. Then start from the point of interest besides knowing the language they prefer to speak in. Also get their comfortable environment. When we did visits in some of the project areas last year, it was easy to talk to the adolescent girls and boys in their groups, in their play areas. For example, for the boys, it would be in the soccer field. For the girls, it would be dodgeball.

[00:08:39] Amanda: You get to understand, for example, an adolescent girl who has a child is not comfortable to talk with other adolescents who are younger or who do not have children. So you categorize them separately and you ask them questions that relate to their situation. That is going to enlighten them on their situation to make them realize they are not alone. They can be successful. So there are many things that we put into consideration. And the SHE SOARS project has given me more insights. 

[00:09:04] Amal: Thank you, Amanda and Jeremiah, for explaining what people can do when they interact with someone for the first time. You both made really good points about trying not to assume anything when you first meet someone and just assess the situation. Maybe ask questions like: how do you wish for me to refer to you? That’s a really great step that people can take when first interacting with someone.

[00:09:26] Amal: So off that point, how can youth take initiative to make language more inclusive? And I would also love to open this question up to Nour as well, maybe sharing our experiences personally to make language more inclusive in our daily lives.

[00:09:42] Nour: Both Amanda and Jeremiah made a really good point on how to approach individuals based on what sort of language they want to use and how they want to be communicated with. So for me personally, body language was a really important sign. I always try to keep that in mind terms of addressing people. I always try to avoid expressions that reinforce gender stereotypes.

[00:10:09] Nour: Honestly, one of my personal points would be not to make gender visible when it’s not really relevant for communication and use gender neutral words. For example, in informal writing such as emails, plural pronouns may be used as a shortcut to ensure gender inclusiveness. Those are some of the points that I try to keep in mind when addressing youth via electronics or emails in my daily life.

[00:10:37] Amanda: Yeah, when you were saying not to mention gender, it took me back to a conference we attended and there were colleagues of ours from another organization who did not want to be identified as ‘she’ or ‘he.’ I was calling him ‘she’ and I noticed he was offended. I did not know until I was told by someone, oh, please just call them by their name. It helps a lot not to categorize. Just look for their names and say, for example, Amal can you talk to Jeremiah?

[00:11:07] Amanda: Do not mention talk to ‘him.’ You can’t know whether Jeremiah, for example, is a ‘she’ or ‘he.’ Then to add on, as young people, how can we take initiative? First, understanding the audience. Usually first impressions matter. For example, when I got to hear Amal’s voice, and Nour’s voice, I was thinking, wow, these are cool young people. We can be free with them. So even the tone in someone’s voice can tell you how to go ahead and engage with someone. And if someone comes up and the moment you say hi, they say hi [disinterested]. You would think, I’m not going to be hyper. I’m not going to set my vibe with someone. They’re so cool and calm. I need to calm down and be humble. So you know, that also dictates the language that we’re going to use. And sometimes maybe we are intimidated by the policies that we advocate for at certain levels, understanding how to break down that language, the jargon, and simplify it. Just like Jeremiah mentioned, we didn’t know what GESI was. Jeremiah, you are not alone. I too did not know what GESI was. I got to understand it way later. 

[00:12:14] Amanda: And instead of saying, all ‘participants,’ we are partners. We are equal. Please let us engage. That is inclusive language. 

[00:12:22] Amal: Thank you so much. I think both of you made a really good point on not moving too fast when you meet people. I know, for example, in my academic settings and when meeting new groups of people, it’s always really helpful if you’re a facilitator of a group to direct the group to saying your name, a nice icebreaker like where you’re from, then also including that point about highlighting your pronouns. So I always find that’s a really great way if you’re within a new group for that to just be out there and for people to have a say on their pronouns and how they want to be referred by everyone.

[00:12:57] Amal: That’s really helpful. Then even the small things I’ve seen, for example, in Zoom meetings people just have in brackets their pronouns or have it at the end of their emails. It’s always helpful just making sure you’re not going to offend anyone unintentionally. Then I found personally, it’s always good to ask someone whenever you’re unsure. And then in terms of the acronyms that you were mentioning, I think having them spelled out when you have a presentation, or not using them as much when you’re talking to new people, is really helpful in avoiding confusion and making sure everyone is inclusive and understanding what is going on. So that is my take and things I have seen in my personal life. I’ll pass it over to Jeremiah to see his response to this question.

[00:13:40] Jeremiah: Everyone who is listening right now, that was so good. I actually learned so much from hearing from the three of you. And I think the only point I would like to echo is just to ensure that as we do this work, we are sensitive towards many things that are happening.

[00:13:55] Jeremiah: And always being able to check back and ensure that how we communicate is youth-friendly as and inclusive. This is very important because it fosters meaningful youth engagement. When we have young people on board, we are able to achieve more than we planned to achieve. Because remember, young people are the larger population, and we need them in our corner. This also enhances youth and adult partnerships. So it is very important to ensure that we communicate in an inclusive and youth-friendly manner. 

[00:14:27] Nour: Thank you. We really appreciate your insights and experiences, and discussing the challenges and interactions with young people. We are wondering, what resources are YAB currently working on to make language more inclusive as part of the SHE SOARS project?

[00:14:44] Jeremiah: Thank you so much Nour for that question. That is very important. And you see, the Youth Advisory Board takes an approach where we believe strongly that you cannot separate youth-friendly and inclusive language from meaningful youth engagement.

[00:14:59] Jeremiah: So we are currently developing different tools and different documents that will enhance meaningful youth engagement in the SHE SOARS project. And we hope that this has a trickle-down effect to all the global and local partners on the SHE SOARS project because we want to see this going down to the grassroots level. We want to see these practices even being implemented in the organizations. For example, we have worked on what we call the meaningful youth engagement progress marker. So that is a document that you use to assess whether you have meaningfully engaged young people or not. There is also a component that talks about inclusivity.

[00:15:45] Jeremiah: And did we use language that is friendly. It is because of documents like that we are able to critically interrogate ourselves and see where we can improve. These are tools that are being assembled by the Youth Advisory Board, Youth Coalition for Sexual and Reproductive Rights, and all the other partners on the SHE SOARS project to ensure that we meaningfully engage young people because that is the only way we can achieve youth-friendly and inclusive language.

[00:16:13] Jeremiah: Amanda and I had a conversation about this some time back. We came to the realization that these two components move hand in hand. So you cannot say we are going to meaningfully engage young people and not have youth-friendly and inclusive language even at grassroots level, even in the rural areas where we’re working.

[00:16:31] Amanda: Thank you, Jeremiah. To add on, as the Youth Advisory Board we look at country contexts. And by this, I mean we have gone ahead to review policy documents per country. This has helped us understand context for the project better. Yeah, I think it is a work in progress that we are still developing more mechanisms or guides for the project. We’re on the right track and the beauty about all of this is that we do not work alone. We are a board of six members, but everything we develop and review, we work together with the project management, with Youth Coalition, and with the partners in countries. And this has really been meaningful as Jeremiah put it.

[00:17:14] Amal: Thank you both for explaining some of the resources that YAB is working on. And you mentioned that you want this to trickle down into grassroots organizations. Are you aware of some initiatives that partner organizations are working on related to inclusive language and youth-friendly practices?

[00:17:33] Jeremiah: Thank you so much, Amal. In particular, Youth Coalition has been doing a lot of work in terms of advocating for youth-friendly and inclusive language. They organize and participate in regional and global convenings that continue to lobby different partners and different governments to ensure that young people are inclusively involved using language that they can understand. That is something that also personally attracts me to an organization and the fact that even the staff that work for the organization are young people.

[00:18:10] Jeremiah: So it becomes very easy to relate with them. The other partner is Restless Development. They are young people driven. And even just the name, ‘restless’ is derived from the nature of young people. We seem to have this power that doesn’t run out. They put the needs and the priorities of young people at the center of their work. I think one thing I have noted is that a lot is being done, but we can do more.

[00:18:38] Jeremiah: When it comes to engaging young people who are in rural areas, for example, who are unable to understand English, who are unable to read, who are unable to write, and young people who are differently abled. All of these are issues that we need to pay a critical eye to because this is where many of these issues are happening.

[00:18:57] Jeremiah: So allow me to acknowledge the wonderful work that I have been privileged to witness within CARE. They have been taking up the practice of engaging with young people, ensuring that when they are speaking about issues affecting young people, they involve young people. So we actually expect that by the time the seven years is ending, and this project is finishing, we will have so many stories to tell. We will have so many testimonies of how organizations would have transformed the way they do business in terms of engaging young people and providing inclusive and youth-friendly language.

[00:19:35] Amanda: Just picking up from where Jeremiah left off, in Uganda, CARE has been working on adolescent health issues, but when SHE SOARS came out, it has expanded. So now we know that because of SHE SOARS CARE is so vibrant because it has moved down to our kind of relationship with the government, the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Gender, and then with the partners themselves. The Uganda Youth and Adolescent Health Forum is doing amazing work in the refugee settlement areas up north. Focusing on the youth-led organizations that are on board, if you look at the capacity they have before, and the capacity they are now getting, they were onboarded on the SHE SOARS project and they are able to gain exposure in terms of advocacy for policy at different levels and at grassroots levels. And that is the beauty with the SHE SOARS project working to have inclusivity when these partners come on board with their different expertise and experiences.

[00:20:32] Amanda: In addition, besides giving sexual and reproductive health information and services, there are also the Youth Savings and Loans Associations that are helping adolescents within the project to be empowered, not only knowledge or information wise, but also financially. It is something that is amazing. 

[00:20:51] Nour: Thank you for joining us, Amanda and Jeremiah, and shedding light on what SHE SOARS and YAB are doing to make language more youth-friendly and inclusive. So please look out for our upcoming episodes where we will focus on highlighting girls’ voices and experiences from the SHE SOARS project and also engaging men and boys.

[00:21:12] Amal: Thank you, Amanda and Jeremiah, for joining us. It was great to connect and discuss these important topics with you both.

[00:21:19] Amanda: Thank you for having us, Nour and Amal, and for listeners, please subscribe to the podcast and don’t miss out on every hot topic that will be coming up. I’m giving you all virtual hugs. Thank you so much.

[00:21:33] Jeremiah: Thank you so much from the Youth Advisory Board. As young people, we are super excited and we are looking forward to a time where any project and any government replicates what we are doing on the SHE SOARS project and just holds the engaging of young people to heart. So thank you very much from Zambia, from Kenya and Uganda. We really appreciate the massive support that you have been giving.

[00:21:55] Amal: Thanks for listening to SHE SOARS. If you liked this episode, please share it on social media, connect with us in the comments or give us a like.

[00:22:04] Lauren: Make sure to catch our next episode by subscribing to our channel and following us wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:22:10] Madeline: Follow @carecanada on Instagram for updates on our show and the project.

[00:22:15] Lauren: SHE SOARS stands for Sexual and reproductive Health and Economic empowerment supporting Out-of-school Adolescent girls’ Rights and Skills in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:22:25] Madeline: The project is funded by Global Affairs Canada. Check out our global partner organizations:

[00:22:31] Amal: Youth Coalition for Sexual and Reproductive Rights, the Center for Reproductive Rights and Restless Development for even more project updates.

[00:22:40] Lauren: Thanks again for listening. Until next time!