[00:00:05] Amal: We are CARE Canada’s Youth Champions, a group of young people across Canada who are passionate advocates for Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights (SRHR).

[00:00:13] Lauren: We’re excited to discuss and raise awareness about young women’s rights and choices in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:00:20] Amal: Together, we will explore how these global issues connect to our lives as Canadian youth and discover ways in which we can all take action.

[00:00:27] Lauren: We will also talk about the SHE SOARS* project, which improves access to health and education, which are areas we want to see change in.

[00:00:34] Everyone: Join us!

[00:00:35] Lauren: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the SHE SOARS podcast. You’re joining us for part one of ‘She Speaks Out – SRHR stories from around the world.’ So these past couple weeks we, the Youth Champions, have been reaching out to youth on social media and in our networks, asking them to share their experiences and stories related to Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights (SRHR) that impacted them.

[00:01:01] Amal: Thank you, Lauren. Talking about Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights can often be an uncomfortable and awkward experience for many people. Not talking about SRHR or health concerns openly can leave many young people having to figure these things out on their own.

[00:01:17] Many of us will have experiences that can be scary, confusing, funny or embarrassing, which is why we came up with this idea for youth to share their stories from around the world. It helps us to realize that we are not alone going through things like your first period, having bodily concerns or having questions about your health and rights.

[00:01:36] Today, we are joined by Amanda, who is a member of the Youth Advisory Board. She is rejoining us for another episode and we’re so happy to have her.

[00:01:45] Amanda: Thank you so much, Amal. My name is Amanda Banura, as mentioned, from the Youth Advisory Board in Uganda. And today we’re going to talk about the fear and stigma we often face and discover our common experiences so we can start to break down those barriers. We’re excited to share stories with you from young people in Canada, the United States, Kenya, Uganda and Ethiopia. I’m so happy to be here again.

[00:02:11] Lauren: Before we dive into the stories we’ll be sharing today, we wanted to let you know that this episode may contain sensitive content that some listeners may find difficult to hear. Themes include stigma. Please consider and decide what’s comfortable for you.

[00:02:24] So I’m just going to share a bit of background about the overall submissions we received. So as mentioned, we received stories from countries around the world from North America to East Africa. The majority of people we heard from were between 18 and 40 years old and all identified as female. So let’s dive into it. Our first theme that we’re focusing on today is stories on first periods and overall normalization of periods.

[00:02:47] Amal: Awesome, thank you, Lauren. So I’m going to be talking about the first story, which comes from Ethiopia. She explained her experience of having her first period and how it was something that is kept hidden in her community. We asked her to tell a story related to Sexual and Reproductive Health and what that experience looked like for you. She said, “I grew up in a town in east Ethiopia. Both my parents went to college. I remember my mom telling me about her first period at 12 years old.

[00:03:17] She said it could happen to me earlier too, even though people thought girls usually get their first period at 14 or 15. So when I got my first period at 11, my mom gave me some cloth and showed me how to use it. I stuck with that for our first few years until they started selling pads in Ethiopia.

[00:03:34] I kept my period a secret from my friends until eighth grade. What I don’t like remembering is how unsure I was about how much blood there should be. And I always felt awkward telling my friends I had my period. I worried about someone seeing it on my clothes.

[00:03:49] And the worst part was wearing lots of clothes in the hot weather, making me super uncomfortable when I walked and sometimes smelling. I still hate that feeling. When I talked to my daughter about it, the first thing I said was that bleeding isn’t too much to handle.” So that’s the first story that we received and I’ll pass it over to Amanda who will share another story.

[00:04:10] Amanda: Thank you very much. I have a story from Kenya. And this is the story: “It was one afternoon in school during class prep when her period started. They were all in grade eight. As the class was quiet, she stood up to go to the washrooms. Her locker mate noticed her dress stained at the back. Instead of telling her, he shouted in Swahili, ‘Ona huyu ameanza kunyesha na hajavaa pads,’ which means in English, ‘Look at this one has started her period and she has not worn any pads.’

[00:04:48] Everybody looked up. All the boys laughed at her. To make it worse, the locker mate took a tissue and wiped the shared lockers with sanitizer. She was very embarrassed and she left the class crying. Some of us girls went to help her while the rest of us called our favorite English teacher to talk to the boys.” That is the story that we have shared all the way from Kenya and how boys in class contributed to the embarrassment of experiencing a period in a public place. I’ll hand it over to Lauren.

[00:05:22] Lauren: Thanks Amanda and Amal for sharing that story. Yeah, that is definitely an intense kind of example of what the stigma can look like. So thank you for sharing that. So I’m going to be sharing a few period stories from the United States. This respondent said, “I have so many embarrassing and horrific period stories.

[00:05:40] I tend to be a heavy and a regular bleeder, which is not a great combination. As a result, when I feel my period coming, I always wear the thickest pads I can find so the wings prevent leakage, but being a heavy bleeder, I still tend to bleed through the pads. So I have bled on chairs at work and have had to face the embarrassment of telling my male boss about it and leaving the office because I also bled through my pants.

[00:06:03] I have also bled on car seats during Uber rides but couldn’t bear to tell the driver. I have bled through countless bedsheets, bottoms, and a few times on my actual mattress. This is not just embarrassing, but also inconvenient and frustrating.” Then the respondent kind of talked about how her mindset is a bit changed around destigmatizing being a heavy bleeder.

[00:06:22] So she says, “It is completely natural to bleed on a monthly basis and it’s okay to talk about it. It’s okay to not be your best self when you’re bleeding. Your body is going through a lot, so if you need, you can take it easy or eat comfort food and spend a day in bed. That’s okay.”

[00:06:36] And then, as it relates to periods in general, there was a comment she left at the end about an interaction with a male construction worker. She said, “One time, I was walking to school and my bag was open. Somehow a pad fell out as I was by some male construction workers who simultaneously also witnessed the pad jumping out of my bag. I bent down and picked up the pad. One of the construction workers looked at me and said, ‘I’m surprised you didn’t just leave that there.’ And my response was, ‘Do you know how expensive these are?’

[00:07:03] And he goes, ‘I sure do. My daughter just got her first period and I’m freaking out. Who comes up with these prices?’ And we just laughed about it and exchanged a few more words. And I continued my walk to school.” I thought that last story was a nice full circle moment of not being embarrassed about the period and learning to talk about it more openly and having a nice exchange as well with a male about it. I will pass it back to Amal who is sharing a story from Canada.

[00:07:27] Amal: Thank you, Lauren. Yeah, I think reading that last submission and hearing about it was really impactful, especially the more positive experience that the person shared. So the next story that I’m going to talk about was a respondent from Canada, who shared her experiences of feeling embarrassment and shame of having a period that was heavy and bleeding through clothing. So when asked what that experience was like for them, they said, “Once I was in seventh grade, I bled through my pants in class. I had to pretend that nothing had happened. I cleaned my chair at the back of the class as the girl beside me noticed and called me out on it.

[00:08:01] I lied about what it was. I was so embarrassed and ashamed. I went through the whole day with bloody pants and did not want to even call and tell my mom. All I did was wrap my sweater around me. I even went to my sister’s birthday dinner right after school with my bloody pants because I was so ashamed.”

[00:08:18] So that is the submission that was shared with us. I will pass it back over to Amanda who will share another story.

[00:08:25] Amanda: Thank you very much, Amal and Lauren, for those amazing stories. And that construction worker was really helpful mitigating that embarrassment. The story I have next is also about the experience of a first period, feelings of embarrassment due to siblings –and by siblings, I mean brother – making fun of this, feeling dismissed at school and at the workplace as our respondent’s period pain was not taken seriously. “So when I started my period, it was on a Saturday afternoon when we were taking lunch together with my male cousin and brother. When I stood up to take the utensils to the kitchen, boom! My white dress was stained.

[00:09:11] My siblings started laughing at me. I cried for hours and went to sleep confused on what to do. I regretted why I was a girl, why this was to happen to me in front of others. Moral of this story: Parents should take the initiative of training both genders to avoid stigmatization. I have felt embarrassed and misunderstood many times.

[00:09:35] My periods used to come with cramps and heavy bleeding until I couldn’t do anything for two days at school. Some teachers thought I was pretending. At the workplace, my employer used to think I was just avoiding work.” And that’s a story from our friend in Kenya. Over to Lauren.

[00:09:54] Lauren: Yeah, thank you for sharing that Amanda. That is definitely a common experience that we’re seeing in these stories is how the stigmatization and the lack of understanding of periods from a lot of men, but also everyone else, can lead to feeling like women’s experiences are being invalidated, which is definitely something that we’re going to unpack further in this episode.

[00:10:13] So I have one last story here and this respondent is from Uganda. So she says that she felt like her bladder was so full, so she quickly ran to the veranda. She said she was unprepared to see the thick red sight in the middle of her purple knickers.

[00:10:28] The shock of it almost sent her falling over the veranda. She thought, have I been cut? Am I normal? It was after a few minutes of panic that the 13-year-old realized that it was the unavoidable period. She still couldn’t wrap her mind around it. She never thought it would happen to her.

[00:10:45] And I guess this is what happens when you don’t have a lot of education around periods and when you feel like there’s something to be worried about, you get that intense feeling of panic. I have a lot of friends that went through a similar thing. So it’s definitely somewhat of a universal experience around the world to face that.

[00:11:01] So thank you for listening to those stories. Now we have some questions to discuss to unpack those stories a little bit more. So I’ll pass it over to Amal.

[00:11:08] Amal: Thank you, Lauren, and thank you, Amanda for sharing those interesting stories. It’s really interesting to hear how even though they’re from different respondents, there are very similar experiences and themes that kind of weaved through each story. So one of the things that I wanted to discuss with both of you is what are some ways we can normalize the conversation about periods in our communities?

[00:11:30] Lauren: Yeah, I have just first initial thoughts about this. I know in my sexual and reproductive health classes throughout education –which were not many, they were maybe a few a year– I remember even from grade four, which was when I would have been nine years old, the girls were hustled into another room while the boys all did their own lessons.

[00:11:51] And it was always taught very separate between the girls and boys. And I think even just simply joining those classes so that the boys also learn about periods and see that it is so normal, and the women can also learn about different experiences that boys go through as well, would be important too.

[00:12:08] But I think it starts from that young age of teaching that it is important to have everyone all together and learning about each other’s body. And it’s not something shameful that should be kept in secret. I think that would go a long way.

[00:12:21] Amanda: I do agree with you, Lauren. The other way I think from my experience, like growing up in a family of boys and girls together, I think openly talking about menstruation, openly talking about ovulation and body changes should really normalize the conversation. And as we talk about men, the boys growing up to have deep voices and then having beards, we should also make it normal to tell the girls okay, at this stage, once you start getting your breasts, you’re going to at some point start having cramps. Normalize the conversation, make it real and make it normal so that they can relate. And the boys too as they listen to these conversations, when the parents are talking with the girls, they can understand and go through the explanations being given. And that way, the boys and girls can grow knowing that this is really normal and so real.

[00:13:13] Amal: Thank you both for sharing. I definitely agree with both of your points on how this needs to be more talked about both within communities and schools, but also in family dynamics. The same way how it is discussed the changes that boys experience throughout adolescence should be discussed with girls as well. I think I will pass it over to Amanda for the next question.

[00:13:37] Amanda: Thank you, Amal. I have been burning with this question. I just talked about normalizing the conversations with the boys and the girls. And so my question is, how do boys and men play a role in period stigma? And how can we engage them to progress in normalizing periods?

[00:13:55] Lauren: Yeah, this is a great question. While we were talking, a story came to mind for me that happened when I was probably 13 or 14. My parents were doing a bit of construction on our driveway or something like that. Anyway, it just so happened that my mom, my sister and I were all on our periods that week and unfortunately, at the same time, a raccoon attacked our garbage bin and garbage was strewn all over the driveway, including a lot of period products from my mom, my sister and I.

[00:14:23] While all the construction workers pulled up, I remember my dad was like mad at us and saying that it was embarrassing and he was embarrassed to have our period products all over the yard, which, you know, it’s not a great look. But also, why was that more embarrassing than other trash? I feel like it is something that men are also just taught is embarrassing even if they don’t necessarily mean it to be.

[00:14:46] I would say my dad is quite an ally in terms of women’s issues, but even him, his instinct was to say it was embarrassing and you guys should clean that up. Yeah, I guess I’m just saying that it’s so deeply ingrained for the instinct to be that it’s something that should be kept away and hidden.

[00:15:02] So I think, like I said earlier, just normalizing the education and conversation around it and I think maybe doing a bit more intentional work to get your family members involved in period conversations and not just feeling like it is something that you can’t talk about in front of them.

[00:15:17] Amal: Yeah, thank you Lauren for sharing that. I think it also rings true to the other two stories that discussed the experiences they have had with boys and men in their lives; they took it more as something that happens to girls that is something to be laughed about. So I think having that education for boys and men as well would be helpful in destigmatizing that whole issue.

[00:15:42] Amanda: Wow, I do resonate with both of you. And Lauren, that raccoon should have been a girl and wanted to teach those construction workers a lesson.

[00:15:52] Lauren: Yeah, I agree. Good point.

[00:15:54] Amanda: It’s hilarious.

[00:15:55] Lauren: Yeah. So we have a final discussion question for part one of this episode. How can we better prepare young girls for the experience of having their first period to avoid that fear and confusion that we read about in some of those stories?

[00:16:08] Amanda: When I was starting my own period, I could have been around 11 or 12. And I remember it started with strong cramps. I could not stand up straight. I didn’t know that it was actually time that my period was coming. And I remember I was at home.

[00:16:23] It was a weekend. It could have been a Sunday. I could not wake up. I just stayed stuck in one place, bent and full of pain. And my mom came over to me as my brother was out playing and she asked me what was wrong. I told her, “I don’t know what is happening.”

[00:16:39] And she handed some paracetamol to me, two tablets, and told me to take that and get to sleep. So when I did, and I woke up, I felt like I was wet. And I told my mom, “I think I have things I do not understand.” I remember her telling me that, you know, this is normal. It is okay. And we didn’t have money to get the period products, the sanitary wear and pads and all that.

[00:17:04] So she bought me some cotton clothes and we tore them in pieces and she showed me how to wrap them up and build them up and place them in the knickers and all that. I looked at her and I was like, okay mommy, you just did that. But it showed I can be open to my mother.

[00:17:22] And that was a lesson I always move with and try to make all the girls be open. If they cannot be open to their mothers for some reason, maybe relationship issues, they can be open to their teachers. And recently, I have heard stories from my primary school teacher.

[00:17:37] He is the senior man teacher, like the one in charge of boys in the school but he gets more cases of girls coming to him when they are in their periods and they don’t have pads, they don’t have period commodities, and he goes out of his resources to buy those period products for them. And they find it so much easier to go to him than to go to the female senior teacher.

[00:18:01] So I think we need to normalize the conversations and also be open minded. Let’s not be rigid, especially to the adult people, the parents, the teachers, the guardians. Let’s always treat these young people and young girls especially with a sense of understanding that we have all been there. Some have 28 days, others 21 – the cycle should be normalized and they should be made to understand that this is normal. Everyone goes through it and they will get out of it. I think it would be better preparing in that way.

[00:18:34] Amal: Wow. Thank you, Amanda, for sharing both your story on your first period and also the story at your primary school. I know I had a similar experience of getting the first period and asking myself, what is this? And then having to call your mom and have her come and explain everything. But I think that point you were saying about having it more normalized, even if it’s not with their parents, within their schools. It kind of relates back to the first story we heard where she was talking about how her teachers would think it was something that she was pretending to get out of school. So I think having that more talked about within schools to expand the understanding that this is normal and this is something that young girls experience will help girls in the long run as well.

[00:19:18] Lauren: Yeah, I fully agree. Thanks for sharing that. I think it just goes to show that having that good communication with a mother, a parent figure or guardian, even a mentor at school, is really helpful and getting those conversations going before your first period comes to avoid initial panic and fear is definitely something that will help make first period experiences a bit smoother, I think. Thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your stories. This was a really interesting discussion.

[00:19:44] Amanda: Thank you.

[00:19:45] Amal: Thank you, Lauren. We have come to the end of our episode. I want to thank Amanda as well for joining us today.

[00:19:53] Amanda: It’s so exciting. This has been great listening and reading the stories.

[00:19:57] Amal: I’m glad to hear that. So this is not the end of sharing stories on the podcast. We have a second part of the episode, which will be coming out soon, where we will continue to share stories on two other themes that we identified while reviewing the stories. So listeners, please stay tuned and thank you for listening to our part one of this episode.

[00:20:20] Lauren: Thanks everyone. Bye!

[00:20:21] Amanda: Bye, thank you.

[00:20:24] Amal: Thanks for listening to SHE SOARS. If you liked this episode, please share it on social media, connect with us in the comments or give us a like.

[00:20:32] Lauren: Make sure to catch our next episode by subscribing to our channel and following us wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:20:38] Madeline: Follow @carecanada on Instagram for updates on our show and the project.

[00:20:43] Lauren: SHE SOARS stands for Sexual and reproductive Health and Economic empowerment supporting Out-of-school Adolescent girls’ Rights and Skills in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:20:53] Madeline: The project is funded by Global Affairs Canada. Check out our global partner organizations:

[00:20:59] Amal: Youth Coalition for Sexual and Reproductive Rights, the Center for Reproductive Rights and Restless Development for even more project updates.

[00:21:07] Lauren: Thanks again for listening. Until next time!