[00:00:01] Madeline: Hello and welcome to SHE SOARS. Her Voice. Her Rights.

[00:00:05] Amal: We are CARE Canada’s Youth Champions, a group of young people across Canada who are passionate advocates for Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights (SRHR).

[00:00:13] Lauren: We’re excited to discuss and raise awareness about young women’s rights and choices in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:00:20] Amal: Together, we will explore how these global issues connect to our lives as Canadian youth and discover ways in which we can all take action.

[00:00:27] Lauren: We will also talk about the SHE SOARS* project, which improves access to health and education, which are areas we want to see change in.

[00:00:34] Everyone: Join us!

[00:00:37] Madeline: Hi everyone, and welcome back to the SHE SOARS podcast. Thank you so much for being here. My name is Madeline and I’m one of the Youth Champions. You might remember me from some of our previous episodes. I’m joined today by Nour, who co-hosted a couple episodes earlier this season, as well as our guest, Musonda.

[00:00:54] Today, we’re going to be talking about some of the common myths and misconceptions about Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, and how we can go about deconstructing them and making sure that young people have access to accurate information about Sexual and Reproductive Health.

[00:01:12] Nour: Thank you so much Madeline and hello everyone. Joining us today is Musonda from the Alliance for Accountability Advocates Zambia (AAAZ), a youth-led partner organization who is leading on SRHR advocacy efforts in Zambia as part of the SHE SOARS project. So Musonda, welcome to the episode and thanks for joining us. 

[00:01:36] Musonda: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, and like you stated, my name is Musonda from Zambia. I would say I’m passionate about young people. That is the first thing I would like to highlight.

[00:01:48] So before I got into the position of leading on the SHE SOARS project, which is looking into adolescent health and making sure they have access to reproductive health services, I spent much of my time interacting with adolescents – so the fun that comes with it and the knowledge of the different challenges they face made the organization recognize my strength and think, okay, we can have Musonda come lead on this project. My background is in development studies as well as psychosocial counselling and Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) testing. Here at AAAZ, we’re leading an advocacy project where we’re trying to have decision-makers make sure they look into the policies we have that speak to reproductive health rights, so that by the end of the day, every young person is able to enjoy their rights to health. 

[00:02:38] Nour: Thank you so much for elaborating. Could you please tell us a bit more about the kind of advocacy work that AAAZ and other youth-led partner organizations are doing in the SHE SOARS project and why it is important for youth to lead on advocacy efforts?

[00:02:53] Musonda: First of all, we are a youth-led organization and we believe in meaningful youth participation in all systems of governance. So if we’re going to speak to interventions for young people, the young people should decide. You cannot assume what my needs are but if you get a young person in the decision-making processes, they will tell you exactly what interventions work best for them.

[00:03:17] So advocacy is making sure that all the interventions that speak to young people’s health are being done by the young people themselves. And making sure that as policies are being made, young people are in those decision-making places to make sure that the commitments are speaking directly to them. We are hoping we can see young people in the planning, implementation and monitoring.

[00:03:40] Madeline: Thanks for that background, Musonda. It’s really interesting to hear your thoughts on the youth-led advocacy part. I definitely agree. Could you maybe talk a bit about some of the common myths or misconceptions you have come across that young people in Zambia tend to face about their Sexual and Reproductive Health?

[00:03:56] Musonda: So allow me to start by saying that ‘Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights’ in Zambia is not something that we have known in that sense; what I mean is we have not grown up learning about it. Of course, we have courses in school that speak to biology, how a person is health wise, how they are in terms of sexuality. But it is not comprehensive. So now having to understand that there is what is called ‘Sexual and Reproductive Health’ – where a young person needs to be taken through to understand their bodily autonomy, to understand that at a certain stage, things change in their life – it’s new.

[00:04:35] So even the way people have received it is with mixed feelings. Allow me to say that in Zambia as I speak right now, we are no longer being allowed to use the word ‘Sexual and Reproductive Health.’ We are saying ‘reproductive health’ because the misconception, as we are saying, is that ‘sexual’ is linked to the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Queer (LGBTQ+) community. What I would say is that we have not grown up in an environment where we speak to – let me attach ‘Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights’ to ‘comprehensive sexuality education’ – also in Zambia as we speak, they have said we should not use that term, but use ‘life skills.’ So I think we are more inclined to look at the term than the actual context. It is just criminalized like you’re teaching young people what they shouldn’t know; they shouldn’t know about sex. So I’ll speak to that.

[00:05:37] Madeline: Thanks Musonda. That was really insightful. I think it’s interesting what you said about the misconception that sexual education and health is about sex because it really is so much bigger than that. There is so much more related to it that is really important for young people to know about that can really impact their lives. 

[00:05:59] Listeners might remember in the last couple episodes we were talking about stories that people shared through an online form related to Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, and a lot of the submissions we got talked about things like period stigma and not feeling comfortable talking about these topics. And I think a lot of that is related to that misconception that it’s something shameful that shouldn’t be talked about.

[00:06:25] Musonda: Would you like me to highlight other misconceptions that we have?

[00:06:29] Madeline: Yeah, if there are specific ones that you can think of that would be great.

[00:06:33] Musonda: Well the other one is that when we started hearing this agenda being advocated for by different civil society organizations, it has been taken like an agenda that the western world is trying to push on us, Africa. So I would say that. Yeah. You find that people as they are giving that defense as to why we shouldn’t go by these lessons they’re telling us, ‘Why are you adopting the western culture? This is not something that we have embraced from the time we’re young. So leave it.’ So this whole concept is perceived to be like an agenda for the western world. That is another reason as to why we have limitations to people accepting Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights. 

[00:07:15] Nour: Thank you both for bringing up really important topics and narratives. So what do you think is the best way to go about making sure that young people have accurate information about Sexual and Reproductive Health?

[00:07:29] Musonda: I will speak to the curriculums that we have. The same as we are talking about climate change today, some things have to be changed. We’re trying to adapt. We’re now learning new things that we didn’t know. So I feel we need to make sure that we advocate for updated curriculums. Let us move with time. That has been the challenge. And also trying to utilize technology, which can be linked.

[00:07:54] Then I would speak to our cultural and religious beliefs. Our religious leaders play a critical role in much of our policies and how we live as a community because we live on the basis of what does God allow, what does God not allow. But we have to look at the implications. These are opinions from what I see. We still have communities especially from the traditional and religious aspect that are still rigid to change. They feel this is unacceptable. But if we can have the stakeholders in these line ministries become more open-minded to look at an issue beyond what we are seeing; what is the effect that comes with not allowing such lessons to be taken by young people? What long-term impact does it have on our community? That is something that we are ignoring. So I feel there should be curriculum reforms. 

[00:08:57] Also sensitization especially to the key stakeholders in decision-making because if the majority that are in decision-making do not align with what we are saying, it will be very difficult to change. Today, we have a saying, allow me to bring you to Zambia. We say, “You cannot change the mind of a Papa believer.” A ‘papa’ is like a pastor, a priest of some sort, who really convinces the church, the congregation to say what they say is what it is. So imagine if we made sure that this one pastor is able to say that reproductive health is okay. We should teach our children about it.

[00:09:35] People should know their rights and access health services. All of those people in that congregation will come and access the services. It just takes a word. So if you can have curriculum reforms, if we can have a lot of sensitization to the decision-makers, and also try to advocate starting from community levels, I think this aligns to our policies. You know, we have progressive commitments that work in our best interest if they were to be implemented. I’m speaking to commitments on reproductive health. 

[00:10:09] From the African chapter to the Child Rights Commission, where they are talking about how a child can access health services, how they can be supported not to be discriminated. They are good policies but people do not know about them. So maybe let’s start by making sure there is decentralization of the policies that we have.

[00:10:31] If people are informed, if people go to the hospital where a young person is to access services and they know to say that Zambia signed onto this commitment to say it is okay for a young person to seek contraceptives, they will know this is something I should provide to this person because it is their right.

[00:10:54] But because people do not know, it is hard for them to work towards implementing what works for us. They are working based on their beliefs. So we need to make sure that the policies that speak to good health and well-being, to reproductive health and to make the lives of young people better, are aware, especially the service providers. Because then they will make our life so much better than working on their own beliefs. So curriculum reforms, sensitization of the stakeholders and decentralizing of all the commitments that we have that work for us is going to contribute greatly to some of those issues that we are facing.

[00:11:35] Madeline: Thank you Musonda for that thorough argument. There is a lot to take in there. What you were saying about curriculum reform reminded me of how in Ontario, where I’m from, the sex education curriculum when I was in high school had been written in the 90s, and so it was at least 20 years out of date and it was just no longer applicable to the modern world.

[00:11:57] And it is so important that those things are continuously updated. You mentioned the importance of awareness raising and advocacy at the community level. Does AAAZ have a specific approach for those sorts of efforts and could you maybe also speak a little bit to how the SHE SOARS project works to give young people access to accurate information on Sexual and Reproductive Health? 

[00:12:23] Musonda: So as an organization, our strength, or rather our vision is advocacy. Making sure there is meaningful participation by young people and being involved in the processes of governance, but most importantly, holding our leaders accountable to commitments that have been made and also looking into the budget allocations.

[00:12:45] So our strength really is advocating for all these to be done the way they should be done. And we do that by disseminating some of the commitments and also simplifying them because that’s another issue. The [last thing] you want to do is bring a commitment that is 500 pages long. Who are you giving that to?

[00:13:04] Who is going to read it in the community? They might not even be able to read the language in it. So we try to simplify it so that it is easy to be read and also translate it in our local languages so that people know where they come in to hold leaders accountable. 

[00:13:22] And then on the SHE SOARS project, we have organizations implementing and then we are on advocacy. So our role is working closely with the decision-makers in our different districts and at the national level. So we are mapping stakeholders that are in charge, who are directly linked to making decisions. And we are trying to look at who can we look at for the local level.

[00:13:46] Here in Zambia, we call them districts. Who is at the district level that is in charge of making sure that adolescents access services? Who is making sure that the purchasing of commodities is constantly coming in? So we are getting to sit with them and tell them the different issues that we are receiving from the other partners.

[00:14:07] The SHE SOARS project gives us evidence because also as we do advocacy, we need to make sure it is evidence-based advocacy. So partners working on the ground give us research, actual figures of what is happening in a particular district, where we take that data and present it to the decision-makers.

[00:14:25] And tell them this is what is lacking. What is the way forward? How can we make sure that this is being done? So that is how we are working with SHE SOARS, making sure that we sit with our decision-makers and making them realize that this whole process is dependent on them. We can advocate but they are the ones who are sitting behind closed doors at the round-table and deciding what happens so we are trying to change their mindsets through this advocacy training to see beyond their seat to say you actually have a role.

[00:14:57] If you do not decide on what is working for the young people, all these issues, unintended pregnancies, young people dying because of unsafe abortions, you should remember that somewhere, you did not agree that contraceptives should be made available. So that is what we are doing, trying to work with them so closely to see that they are implementing their different commitments and the strategies that we have are being done as they promised.

[00:15:24] Nour: Thank you so much for that discussion of AAAZ’s approach and elaborating on the strategies for connecting young people with effective Sexual and Reproductive Health information. So what advice would you give to young people who notice myths and misconceptions held by their peers?

[00:15:44] Musonda: It is time we realize that the more we do not talk, the more the challenge gets to be bigger. And if I do not speak today, who is going to suffer? My child tomorrow. So I would advise young people to own the process. To be advocates. It doesn’t mean you can only be an advocate if you are in an office or if you have been employed.

[00:16:09] You can be an advocate everywhere. You can speak to everyone. So I think training everyone, teaching each other about Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights. It just takes you to say: Did you know that Sexual and Reproductive Health is actually something that you should understand?

[00:16:27] As a young person, when you go to the hospital, you find that something is not adding up. Maybe a service provider didn’t speak to you correctly. Maybe they judged you. You have to go and ask, why is this happening the way it is happening? Be curious. Let us start making whispers. I think that would really help. 

[00:16:45] The challenge is that we have few people speaking on this. In the context of Zambia we have a number of organizations but so long as the community does not know, the effect may not be as we anticipate. They are the ones facing firsthand the effect of everything that we are doing. So I would encourage every young person to make sure they speak up. Say something. It helps. You’re going to know more. You’re going to learn more. And at the most important time, when you least expect it, you’re going to make change. Young people should be interested to make sure that they don’t leave this advocacy work to anyone, they should start.

[00:17:29] Madeline: Thanks so much Musonda. That’s really great. Following on that, one last question before we wrap up: Do you have any specific actions that you would recommend to young people who are looking to get involved in advocacy in this space?

[00:17:47] Musonda: Because I have highlighted how we should make sure we speak up, the other thing I would encourage young people to do is read. Being in the SHE SOARS project, specifically the advocacy pillar, I have learned so much and I am thinking to myself: What? This exists? Because you’re finding that there are certain commitments that are saying every young person should receive information on Sexual and Reproductive Health.

[00:18:16] It does not say where but you have the right to receive that information. I’m learning that every clinic/hospital should have a space for a young person to go in and access services. If everyone knew that it would be easy for us to get what belongs to us, what is supposed to be ours. But without the knowledge, it is hard to even advocate.

[00:18:42] So yes, I stated that the first step is speak up. That’s a starting point. But as you advance, make sure that what you are speaking is attached to data. Read on what is happening. What commitments are being set today? What are they saying about young people? Where can I get this information? 

[00:19:00] You can tell them, listen, this document says by 2030, we should achieve these goals. But how far are we? People should start questioning because I am personally sad to learn that we have so many commitments and no one is monitoring and evaluating how far they have been. I’m thinking it is not just a matter of signing [a commitment] as a country. They might try to implement one or two things but we need to make sure it is beyond signing. And the only way that can happen is if the majority know what we are signing. So young people, as we approach advocacy, as we are trying to advocate for different issues, let us have data.

[00:19:44] Let us have information. So that when we present, no one will question, why are you telling me this? It is what it is. The document is here.

[00:19:53] Madeline: Thank you so much Musonda and I’m sure that is going to be inspiring to our listeners Those are all of the questions we have today for this episode, so thank you so much for joining us. This was a really great conversation.

[00:20:06] Musonda: Thank you so much for hosting me. And this is actually a form of empowerment to speak to the advocacy issues and what we are doing. I appreciate you both. Thank you so much. 

[00:20:16] Madeline: Thank you to all of our listeners for joining us. Make sure you tune in to our next episode, part two of our myth busting topic where we are going to be looking at this issue more from the Canadian perspective.

[00:20:29] Nour: Thank you so much everyone and stay tuned for our next episode! Bye. 

[00:20:34] Madeline: Bye!

[00:20:35] Amal: Thanks for listening to SHE SOARS. If you liked this episode, please share it on social media, connect with us in the comments or give us a like.

[00:20:44] Lauren: Make sure to catch our next episode by subscribing to our channel and following us wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:20:50] Madeline: Follow @carecanada on Instagram for updates on our show and the project.

[00:20:55] Lauren: SHE SOARS stands for Sexual and reproductive Health and Economic empowerment supporting Out-of-school Adolescent girls’ Rights and Skills in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:21:05] Madeline: The project is funded by Global Affairs Canada. Check out our global partner organizations:

[00:21:11] Amal: Youth Coalition for Sexual and Reproductive Rights, the Center for Reproductive Rights and Restless Development for even more project updates.

[00:21:20] Lauren: Thanks again for listening. Until next time!